Author Kate Chopin is considered to be a preeminent author of the late 19th century, early 20th century realism. Although her work was not wildly popular at the time, today Chopin's writings have an active following. A feminist at a time when feminism was not yet a social construct, Chopin's work is known for it's rich, colorful descriptions of the plight of women and Southern life, especially in Louisiana. "Desiree's Baby," is one of Chopin's most popular works.
Click the Title Above and read the short story.
Then answer the questions that follow:
What kinds of assumptions exist here? What pre-existing cultural conditions, ideologies, or beliefs were in place for this story to end so tragically? Why do you think this story remains so popular today?
42 comments:
In the story; "Desiree's Baby", I can feel the tension build line by line as I read it. The time period is clearly during the scorn of slavery and ignorance.
From the beginning, Armand's life seems to be about ownership. He owns land, slaves, and Desiree's adoration. However, he does not own or take responsibility for his hasty judgement regarding Desiree's race.
Armand makes the assumption that Desiree is not white and therefore neither is their child. He behaves in a hasty and hateful manner by kicking them out of his life. He then takes his racism a step further by burning their keepsakes, as if to extinguish it all down to shame and ash.
What must he have felt when he read the letter and found out that he was biracial?
The story is a weaving of love, betrayal, race, and the unknown. As readers and students, we want to learn from the experience of others regarding all of these issues; yesterday, today and tomorrow.
A couple of the assumptions I found are Armand believed he was white and when his son didn’t look white he assumed that his wife was part black. An inter-racial marriage was considered taboo in the south during story’s time period. Armand owned several slaves and had a heavy hand on them. This story remains very popular because it contains a good lesson about love, trust, and assumptions. Armand destroyed his family and marriage because he assumed Desiree lied to him about her race. He based everything off of his assumptions. If he had really loved her like his parents loved one another, then the color of one's skin should not have mattered.
Inter-racial marriages are accepted in today’s society but there are still some people who do not believe you should marriage outside your race. Love is colorblind. I’ve taught my son to look inside a person and not what’s on the surface.
Ms. Wanzo, thank you for recommending this author for future readings.
Alestri - First of all, I agree that people learn from other's mistakes. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing... what was running through his mind once he saw that letter? Did he have regrets that he let Desiree go? For such a proud individual (that's my assumption of him), he must have been either devastated or ignored the information in the letter.
Armand Aubigny seemed like a man who was used to having things his way. To even think he was mixed with black was inconceiveable, slaves were viewed as property and not people. Armand had obviously been born into a prestigious family, anything done to ruin the family name would be scandoluos. Desiree seemed anxious for his approval and affection. This was a time when women didn't work, had very little say so if any and they were property too. The story is set in time when slaves and family owned plantations were common place but is still very relavant today. It deals with the age old issues of race, stereotypes, and prejudices.
BUT what kind of assumptions are made: value, warranted, conscious, unconscious, what specific connections did you all make between this story and what we've learned thus far in class?
Ms. Wanzo,
In the story of "Desiree's Baby", several assumptions do exist.
Desiree makes an unconscious assumption that Armand loves her no matter what. And the question of his or her race never enters the picture until the end. Desiree also makes a warranted assumption that Armand loves her, and what they share is true love. She would never want to think he would abandon her or disown her or their child.
One connection I can make in the story and what we are talking about in class is the emphasis on race, color and culture. Specifically, when Armand reads the letter from his mother that says: "life has been arranged in such a way that he does not know the truth of his own culture." Clearly it was not safe during that time for it to be known that his mother was black, and the truth was kept from Armand. Because he is not given the opportunity to know about his own culture and therefore himself, he suffers later in his life and in turn, hurts those around him.
How much does this go on today? As a culture, many of us keep who we really are from others. Some of us are afraid to express ourselves for fear of being hated or harmed. Another example is our class discussion about Don Imus. The racist comments that he made were his own but they also speak to a larger problem. He clearly is part of the problem, and the bigger conscience that needs to be addressed widely came out of his bigoted mouth.
Will we have time to discuss this story in class? It seems we could go into a lot of areas with your specific questions, and the time period of the piece is pivotal.
Thanks,
Lisa
As always Ms. Wanzo, you never fail to amaze me with your wealth of diversity in your assignments.
In "Desiree's Baby", I found that two people had unconscious assumptions working. Desiree and Armand both believed that they were white, without any evidence to the contrary. But even further to the audience, we made the same value assumption that Armand jumped to because he thought he was certain of his lineage.
I can understand why this writer would be popular; her style is simple and very descriptive. I could see the fields and the scenery as the author described Desiree leaving.
And finally I felt that the story fed me a warranted assumption, in that, I believed that Desiree was the one who had a black parent in her past due to all if the inferences. She was left in a field, no one ever made mention of any difference in her, Armand seemed as white as she was amazed at the twist in the end.
Greetings Alestri,
Inter-racial relationships are extremely different today since in the slave era there were laws/ codes to prevent it. What is really interesting is that the stigma still goes on today. I am the mother of inter-racial children. I am black and the father is from argentina. My daughter looks creole (mulatto) and my son looks like me with a straight texture of curly hair. In the early 80's things had lightened up on the inter-racial couples, but we still got the stairs and his father could never understand why he went outside the race. We were young and in love. Did anything else matter? Well not at that time, but culture clash and parental pressures did not allow for a successful ending. Today things are better, but people still feel uncomfortable about inter-racial couples, they just do not say anything. This is a personal opinion. s
This story took place in the times of Slavery, so it wasn't really surprising to me that it would be about a bunch of people acting ignorant. Well, the first and obvious assumption that exists is a false sense of "warranted assumptions". Everybody in these times "knew" that African American people were inferior and it showed all throughout this short story. It was common belief that wasn’t really questioned; it was just the way things were. Slavery (and this way of thinking) lasted for a long time so people were being raised and living their entire lives “knowing” that African American were supposed to be slaves. That’s what this story was an example of. 100 years from now, there can be a similar story about how people thought that we were the only living things in the solar system. We “know” now that there is no life on Pluto. Well what about ice people huh? Ice people could exist on the planet Pluto and we don’t even know it! Then they will invade Earth and enslave us humans! Then common belief would be that ice people are jerks. Scary to think about eh? Don’t worry though, it’s warm here, so that will never happen. Anyway, I think the story remains popular because the message will always be current: don’t assume that what you know today will always be the same as time goes on. We cannot assume that what holds “true” for today will always hold true in the coming years.
Hello Alestri, I agree with what you said about feeling the tension rise line by line. At first, I didn’t realize that this story took place in the times of slavery so I didn’t know what to expect in terms of tragedy. For some reason though, I could tell that something was brewing amongst the characters in the story. The author did a good job of conveying this sense of false security at first. It was interesting that this was indirectly implied from the beginning.
Desiree and Madame Valmonde made unconscious assumption in the first place,by concluding that Armand has changed since Desiree gave birth.based on this assumption,Valmonde claimed that "What Desiree said was true, Marriage and later the birth of his son had soften Armand Aubigny's imperious and exacting nature greatly; Armand's dark handsome face had not often disfigured by frowns since the day he fell in love with her" Such an oversight made them to forget that Armand not in love was because of racial differences in their relationship.Appearently,that made Armand to belief that he supose not to marry Desiree because she is she is not white.This belief made him not to show any passion to Desiree even at the point she was moving to join her mother.I think the whole story here is to tell how deep such irrational mentality was. The issue of race seems to be as old as America,which means is part of the culture.
The first assumption is unconscious, which is the love that Desiree gave it to Armand. Desiree might thought love is everything, including no matter the skin color of the baby. However, at that time some male didn't agree that, such as Armand. Second assumption is still unconscious because Armand assumed that the child is not white; therefore Desiree is not white. Desiree is already prove she is white, her hair is brown, her eyes are gray and her skin is fair. Didn't Armand even think about the problem is exist on him, but not Desiree?
Alex,you made a point. The tension in the relation was not get any better.But I wonder why Desiree and her mother nerver discovered that.Rather,they tought that Armande had changed so things were taken for forgranted.
Hi - alestri
I agree with you when you said Armand didn't own or take the responsibility for his hasty judgement regarding Desiree's race and their baby, also I agree with you at that time, people are more racism when they look at each other, no matter on their own baby. It's ashame when Armand making the decision like that and feel sorry for Desiree
We need to learn from the experience by others lesson, then we won't have the same mistake in the future
“They were assumption only recognized as such after circumstance revealed their errors. (p149)” This is definition of the unconscious assumption from our text book. In the story of “Desiree’s Baby”, obviously, Desiree and Armand have affected by their unconscious assumption. From appearance they are white, they never question about their racial and “root”. Until they have a black skin baby, everything between them is going wrong.
In this case, it is also relating to “Facts are not absolutes” and “Feelings can be facts (p82). Armand is white, but his mother is black. So he is not “white” actually. This fact is not absolutes. On other hand, he feels that Desiree is black although she looks white. He assumes that his feeling is the fact.
The background of story is on the slavery century. Africa-Americans and women are the properties that belong to men. Women couldn’t have voice freely. Desiree can not support herself strongly although she know that she is white with 100 percent sure. In the man world, women are powerless even the “white” women. Indeed, people’s value, standard and assumption would be affected under power of the culture. Armand assume all the black skin people who can be slaver and in low class only in the society. How can he accept his body with those “feature”, black and low class? Race and class are beyond anything in his life, not matter love and family.
Although the slavery century had gone, racism and classism still exist today. So the stories like “Desiree’s Baby” are still happening.
Hi Sayson,
I do agree that you say “Love is colorblind.” As immigration country as America, there are a lot of cultures and ethnics that combine together in the society. Inter-racial marriages are popular now. I think that true love will beyond anything, include culture and race. From that sad story we just read, I wish all of us would learn something that is valuable for our life.
While reading "Desiree's Baby" by Kate Chopin a few unconscious assumptions popped out at me between Armand and Desiree. As evidence, Desiree thought that her husband Armand would always love her unconditionally and Armand thought he was white. Also neither of them thought about their race until the baby was growing and his features began to change.
Since this story was during slavery there are many pre-existing issues. Inter racial relationships were common between the white masters and the African American women slaves during this time period. These relationships were kept secret and the mother has to raise the child alone.
I think that the this story is still prevalent today because inter racial dating is skyrocketing and also there maybe people still till this day who are just finding out that their another race and are dealing with the same disbelief and confusion as Armand.
After reading this story it reminded me of the movie life for a moment because the master’s daughter and one of the slaves had an interracial baby together and the master was upset and he was determine to find out which one of the slaves slept with his daughter. So yes I believe that this story of Desiree’s Baby will remain popular of many decades to come.
Hello Sandye!! I agree with you that Ms.Wanzo always finds great reading assignments for the class to read. I enjoyed reading this story because the issue is still prevalent today of inter racial dating and marriages. I hope to see you in class and have a great weekend.
The story "Desiree's Baby," by Kate Chopin was a very interesting read. There were several unconscious assumptions throuhgout the story. The first one was evident when Desiree was talking about the love that Armand had for her. Desiree felt that no matter what happened, Armand would always be there to love her and their child. The other one was Armand believing that he was white and Desiree was black because of their child not looking white. As the child began to grow, the little boy had features that they believed white people didn't have, so Armand automatically assumed that Desiree had to be black, even though his mother was black and Desiree was much lighter than him. Although he didn't find out that his mother was black until end when he read the letter that his mother had given his father, he had to have known because he was not as light as the white people.
The main pre-existing cultural belief that caused the story to end so tragically was the fact that it took place during Slavery era. This was when many White slave owners had relationships with their African American slaves who were female, but left them to raise the child on their own even though they knew it was their child. This was known as inter-racial relationships and they were not accepted during that time. Nowadays, people are more accepting and they don't discrimate against people as much as they used to. Some people today may not agree with it, but they're less likely to share how they feel about it.
I think this story remains so popular today because Kate Chopin's words are so descriptive and as I continued to read the story, I was able to imagine the scene she was talking about. From Desiree laying with the baby, to the little boy fanning the little child, I was able to imagine it all. This was a very interesting read and I like Kate Chopin's style of writing.
Hi Sandy,
I know that things are different today regarding inter-racial relationships. Given that that story was based on another time period, I pray that the collective consciousness has greater awareness concerning race. I know I have a lot to learn.
I agree with you that the stigma does exist today. I see it in day to day life where people do not accept who others choose to love.
Perhaps it is fear that gets projected onto others out of ignorance and clouds one's ability to see the bigger scope. We are all human beings, and we all are fortunate to find love no matter where it comes from.
I would welcome hearing more about your own experience.
Thanks,
Lisa
After reading Desiree’s baby I found several assumptions. One hidden assumption was an argument which is “a structures of reasoning designed to be persuasive “(153). This was present when Armond argued that the baby could not be his because the baby’s skin was white and therefore assumed Desiree was not white. Another is unconscious assumption, “an assumption only recognized after circumstances revealed their errors” (149). The example was after assuming the baby was dark skinned because of Desiree, Armond encountered a letter explaining his mother was the same race as his slaves.
Some of the pre-existing cultural decisions included racism. Racism was present in those days and it was unheard of for a white and black person to have a child together. Armond assumed all of his life that he was born into a white family, when in fact he was never informed that his birth mother was of black descent.
The story ends tragically because Armond assumed Desiree was responsible for the baby’s dark skin and therefore threw her and the baby out without looking closer into facts. If he would have listened and acknowledged Desiree’s reasoning without shutting her out of his life, he might have been able to look into his ethnical background for answers before encountering the letter of truth
Hi l Layson
I agree with your post about the story and how interacial marriages still are not accepted today. I remember trying to date a girl who was asian. The girl told me she could not go out with me because I was not asian enough. This of course hurt me and made me realize racism is still out there.
I enjoyed reading the story of "Desiree's Baby". It was a reminder of one of the discrimination that occurred in the earlier days. However, inter-racial relationships, marriages and children are sill not accepted by many. It is out of complete ignorance of people who do not accept the fact that it is okay to be with someone outside of your culture. If you were to ask people how they felt about inter-racial relationships they would most likely answer by saying that they do not have a problem with it. Yet, if a family member or friend dated someone outside of thier culture they would perhaps have a different perception. The reason for the different view on inter-racial relationships has to do simply because the issue hit closer to home. Society does not like to admit the fact that they have a problem with inter-racial relationships because they would be classified as racists. The unconscious assumption existed in the story when Armand assumed that Desiree was Black, but in the end it revealed that he was the one who was bi-racial.
The kinds of assumptions alluded to in the story "Desiree's Baby,” is that Desiree is of mixed blood and that she brought shame on Armand Aubigny. The pre-existing cultural conditions were that Blacks were in bondage during the period of Slavery and women had no rights. They were considered as property also. I really don’t know why this story is so popular today. I have never heard of Kate Chopin and "Desiree's Baby." It was a powerful story to me. I was led to believe the whole time that Desiree was of mixed ancestry until the end of the story where Armand Aubigny burned a letter that contained he was of mixed ancestry.
First of all, the story is very sad. The story was in the period of time of slavery, racism (that white were superiors) and sexism (that men are better that women). Because of that, the first assumption it made was a value assumption: that interracial marriage is wrong. Armand unconsciously assumed that he and his wife were white. Therefore, he assumed that his own child would be white (warranted assumption.) then when he assumed his wife was not white; he used conscious assumption since he observed that his own child was not white and drew that conclusion.
The story is a tragedy, but it teaches us a great lesson. The United State is like a “melting pot” that combined different cultures and races. In my opinion, true love is love regardless of race, culture, background and etc.
Hi, Sandye and Joy Forte:
You guys are right. The readings Ms Wanzo gave us were worth to read. Just like this one, it reminds me about my parent’s value assumption about their Chinese culture: that they feel right only if I would marry with Chinese people. However, that is not for me. As I say, any girls regardless their color will fit me as soon as our personality matches.
Kate Chopin's, "Desiree's Baby," had a few unconscious assumptions that existed in the text.
One that I found very interesting was how Armand thought he was white. This whole issue about race did not come up until the baby got older and it's features did not resemble those of a white baby. Before Armand took fault, he was so quick to jump on Desiree and accuse her of not being white. I felt that the quote, "Look at my hand; whiter than yours," said by Desiree proved that she was the white one. Rather than Armand trying to take the fault, he was so quick to blame Desiree, which i thought was not fair. In the end, Armand found out that indeed it was he who was black. His mother had written his father a letter before she died and he found out that she was black. The story ended with Armand reading the letter that his mother had sent to his father stating, "his mother....belongs to the race that is cursed with the brand of slavery," which proved that he was not full white.
Another unconscious assumption that I found in the text was how Desiree felt that Armand began to act because of her coming into his life and them having a baby together. "Marriage, and later the birth of his son had softened Armand..." was why Desiree felt that it was her who changed him. I think she thought he loved her so much and he would never do anything to harm her and their child. She also felt that he would be there through thick and thin, and that nothing would cause him to change his mind about them. I think she was ultimately hurt in the end because when he found out that his baby was not white, he left her. He didn't even try to hear the other side of it, which showed that he didn't love her as much as he seemed to in the beginning.
Some of the pre-existing cultural conditions, ideologies, or beliefs that caused the story to end so tragically was that of racism, as well as inter-racial relationships. It was sad that Armand did not accept his son or Desiree in the end because he found out that his son was not white, which he felt was Desiree's fault. Racism is sad because we all are the same people except for our skin color. The baby was still his child, so he should have had unconditional love for it. Also, inter-racial relationships were common during Slavery because the white masters often had relationships with the female slaves. It was sad that after getting them pregnant, they often left the women to provide for the child on their own. It happened, but nothing was done to prevent it.
This story is popular today because inter-racial relationships still exist, as well as racism. People still have inter-racial relationships, because unlike back in the time of Slavery, people are more accepting and don't really care anymore. Racism persists today because of ethnocentrism and how the media portrays each race. For example, the media's portrayal of black neighborhoods tend to be low-income, poverty stricken, crime infested, and murder ridden areas. This type of portrayal leads to negative mental images of the black race.
The story of "Desiree's Baby" is during the time of slavery. The story is about love, race,and the act of betray.Armand thought Desiree wasn't white, but of a different color. He also believed that his baby didnt look like him; therefore, he assumes that Desiree had to be black. He didnt like black since he owned slaves who were black.He wasnt going for that, so he had to do sothing about it immediately.
Being that in the south inter-racial marriages weren't acknowledge, he decided to betray his wife, and child.
The story remains popular today because it talks about love, assumption's that people make, and trusting you love one.
Armand messes up his family by destroying them and getting writ of their personal items that were left behind, all because of what he assumed.
Today inter-racial marriages are excepted more than ever before; however, there is still a problem today with some people. Some people still think its outrageous,and many are frowned at it because of it.In my opinion, i believe it shouldn't matter about the race, and long as u love the person. Color shouldn't matter, but still today people are still blinded behind that.
I agree with Judy when she says, “Inter-racial relationships, marriages and children are sill not accepted by many.” Being African American I know how it feels to be with somebody not Black. All the stares were uncomfortable even when the person was a friend. A lot of African American women feel the same way when they see African American men with a woman outside of the race. They say why is he with her and other things that are not acceptable in this forum.
I agree with what Judy is saying because it is really true. We feel as though people are accepting of inter-racial relationships because it's not really talked about. But I remember being in an English class my Junior year of high school and the teacher asking the class(because I went to a mainly Asian school) how many of you have ever dated a black person? And none of them raised their hands. Then she asked why. Their responses were all that their parents said they can't date black people because black people are bad, so they had no choice but to listen. I just think people have a problem with inter-racial relationships because of what they have been taught by their parents. I just think love is love, no matter what color your skin is, your race, religion, background, etc.
JIALE YU,
I agree with you a lot.Back in the south, inter-racial marriages were concerted wrong, and Armand couldn't see beyond that. He drew conclusions too soon, not even to think to ask, or bring the subject up. He didn't care because he knew what he thought was right.
This story is a great lesson to learn, because today so many people judge others of what their race is and look at them different because of it.
I agree with Judy and Satcher Boi; interracial relationships often result in stares and mean looks. Especially for black males dating women of non-color. Anyone that is a black males and dated outside their races knows what I'm talking about. Even though there is often never an outward display of racism, you can still sense that its there.
What Kinds of assumptions exists here?
It is assumed that Desiree’s can be from on slave of African descent because she was found by a big stone at the age two abandon.
It is also assumed that her child features and pigment change had to do with her ancestor.
Pre-existing cultural conditions, ideology .In this time period it was a common ideal among slave owners that African needed looking after, and were lazy and to stupid to govern themselves. White people believe that they were surpmere in everyway to Africans slaves. African child slaves were a condition was conditions to fear life outside slavery and to have low self worth.
The story is reminder not to go alone with what society is say what is right for you. But, believe in yourself and maintain an high opinion of yourself. No, matter what popular opinion of world says about you. Desiree’s Baby story ended so tragic, because none of the charter love themselves enough to tell the society to leave them alone.
Ms. Wanzo, I commend you for selecting this peice. It fits directly into what you're teaching us. Hasty judgements can so easily be incorrect or at least partially incorrect. Because although Armand is correct in assuming that their child is not pure white, he is incorrect in hastily assuming that it was Desiree's bloodline that caused it. It seems like Armand thought, probably because of the time period, that a white man could not love, marry and raise a child with a woman who was not totally white. He assumed that it would be more likely that they would chose to abandon their child rather than to raise it. It appears that Armand was not the man that his father was. I think this story remains so popular because it has a dual message, one about the strenght of love and one on social pressure and how it affects our decision making.
Hello I. Sayson! I agree with you that inter-racial marriages are not accepted by some people. I am glad that you are teaching your child to look at what is inside and not on the outside appearance. I know how it is to date outside of your culture. I remember getting all the mean looks and rude comments people made. It was annoying at times, however, I ignored ignorant people that did those things.
This was a great story. As I was reading it, I actually pictured the plantation with the slaves in the fields. I felt like I was on an emotional rollercoaster. Chopin made everything so jolly and the love at first sight part, where Armand didn't care where Desiree came from he just loved her no matter what. But, the ending was just sad. His entire world was just ruined simply because his child was not pure white. No, love for the son, no love for the wife, his w entire plantation including slaves were even getting back lash simply because he believed his wife could possibly have some black in her blood. The entire time it was he that had the mixture of blood.
There is definitely a lesson to be learned is this story aside from indicating that being a racists doesn't help anyone. The very thing he hated for no reason came from him.
This blog is closed.
Ms. Wanzo
In the short story "Desiree's Baby," we can see many of the words Ms. Wanzo gave us as examples. It was really interesting to observe the unconscious and conscious assumptions of both Armand and Desiree herself. Armand couldn't understand why the baby was colored and assumed it was Desiree, but failed to realize it was him all along. This was a good short story, because it makes me really think and understand that Desiree's story was many other women's story as well. I believe that all over the world this racism is still occurring and it is really sad to see that this still exists amongst us. Kate Chopin's short story was very controversial because imagine a woman, in those days, telling a story of racism being the man's fault? Pretty shocking for any man and woman in those days who "should know there role." Kate Chopin was probably seen as a bad influence to woman and men saw probably saw her as a threat.
Sandye,
Academic Jambalya.
''Desiree’s Baby’’ is a story of love, prejudice and rejection that seems to be more than an examination of a distinct cultural place. Even though the story raises an important issue in which the pervasive and destructive describe an ambiguous nature of racism. The story also questions the potential fulfillment of woman's identity a subject that fascinated the unconventional Chopin. In her portrayal of Desiree, a woman whose self worth and self exploration is intrinsically linked to that of her husband, Chopin opened the door to her lifelong query into a woman's struggle for a place where she could fully belong.
This is great lessons that really examine the issue particularly for those who will attempt to hide their identity; it isn’t a good option because you don’t even know what your children phenotype.
the main part in the story to me was how sayson bascially turned is back on his family and destoyed everything that he loved and what mattered most to him, and that was his family. It all went down hill because he made assumtions that desiree didnt tell the truth about her race and also because the son didnt look white. S o this should be a lession for everybody not to assume and find the anwsers first or you will end up like sayson.
i agree with sayson because i also think that if armand didnt make assumptions his whole relationship would be better. but he continued to go down hill.
and i also feel strong about inter-racial marriages because you cant help who you fall in love with and if it happens to be a different race then so be it.
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